English text on "Movies" - please give feedback

[Sedge]

Hey guys - please leave some comments

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Movies are part of our culture. To be more exact: They are part of popular culture. Movies can be watched as a sleep-aid, while ironing or for amusement in bus. But in my opinion movies are art. Or, in the words of director Ingmar Bergman: “No art passes our conscience in the way film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls."
There are many ways how a film can affect our feelings – writer, director, editor, music composer: they all have their influence. A massive factor for the perception of a film is the actor. With his appearance, body, body language, mimic and -last but not least- his voice, he can deliver a message and act meaningful.

If you know the original version of a film and then see a synchronized version it can be quite weird. In most cases the original dialect, like American or British, is lost. Furthermore, the actor could have a totally different, perhaps unfitting voice, which can be very annoying. Even if the voice fits it can be annoying. An example would be German actress Diane Kruger, who acted for instance in National Treasure (2004). In English she did her part quite good, but she voice-overed herself in the German version. Though she is a native German she sounds bored and unemotional. By that you can see that even voice acting is part of the artwork movie.
In Sweden there is no such problem – movies are not synchronized but subtitled. It simply would be too expensive to synchronize movies for such a small audience (as a side-effect the Swedish have a better level of English). In Germany on the other hand we have quite good synchronizations. In general the voices are appropriate and the synchronization is lip-sync.

Concerning speaking of an actor we have seen that it is important how – now I will focus on what, the translation. When the words of an actor are transferred into an other language there can be a loss of information, for example wordplays will not work anymore. To give an example of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989): A Teacher asks "Who was Joan of Arc?" whereon Ted answers "Noah's wife?". When this dialogue is translated into German the humor will definitely be lost.
Another interesting point in German synchronizations is, that the reference of Germans often is deleted. For instance the British movie Snatch (2000): Turkish asks Tommy, what he is doing with a gun. Tommy answers “It's for protection”, whereon Turkish replies “Protection from what? 'Zee Germans'?”. Here is a reference of Germans but also of the characteristic German pronunciation of 'th'. In the German version Turkish replies “Zum Schutz vor was? Dem schwarzen Mann?”.
Another example for such an altering is 5th Element (1997). In the opening scene a human scientist is face-to-face with a race from outer space. Surprised by the sudden appearance of the aliens he asks “Are you German?”. In the German version this is changed into “Seid ihr von der Erde?”.

An example for the alteration of a complete moral is Starship Troopers (1997), an adaption of a science-fiction-novel by Robert Heinlein. Here the world is a fascist state ruled by a military government. In the final scene, a funeral, the protagonist is talking about the deceased fellow: “Dizzy was a friend. A soldier. But more than that – she was a citizen of the federation!”. This makes clear, that the underlaying principle of “military service guarantees citizenship”, the belonging to the federation counts more than personal relations like friendship. In the German version it is changed into “Sie möge uns ein leuchtendes Vorbild sein!”. The references to a totalitarian fascist state are throughout the movie almost completely weakened.

In a synchronized movie can be several differences to the original one: voices of actors, meaning of dialogues, even the intended impact of the movie can be altered by a different language. It is important to know and to be aware of, that a movie was intended to be in another language.

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Any comments?


Edit: Ooops, das hätte wohl eher nach "Allgemeines" gehört....
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[ingot]

Hi Sedge,

Were you thinking of comments on language or content?

ingot
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[Sedge]

Both, if possible:

Is the language okay, does it sound weird or is it easy to read through, do you stumble over certain formulations (sagt man das so? "Über Fomulierungen stolpern" im Sinne von "Lesefluss behindern")

Inhalt: Ist es einigermassen "rund", macht die Abfolge der angesprochenen Themen Sinn, bleiben Fragen offen....
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[ingot]

Your language is excellent! I'm impressed. You obviously know more about movies than I do, but what you say makes good sense to me. May I ask how far along you are in your schooling?


Movies are part of our culture. To be more exact: They are part of popular culture. Movies can be watched as a sleep-aid, while ironing or for amusement on the bus. But in my opinion, movies are art. Or, in the words of director Ingmar Bergman: “No art passes our conscience in the way film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls."
There are many ways a film can affect our feelings – writer, director, editor, music composer: they all have their influences. A major factor for the perception of a film is the actor. With his appearance, body, body language, mimicry and -last but not least- his voice, he can deliver a message and act meaningfully.

If you know the original version of a film and then see a dubbed version of it, it can be quite weird. In most cases, the original accent, like American or British, is lost. Furthermore, the actor could have a totally different, perhaps unsuitable, voice, which can be very annoying. Even if the voice fits, it can be annoying. An example would be the German actress, Diane Kruger, who acted for instance in National Treasure (2004). In English, she did her part quite well, but she did the voice-over herself in the German version. Although she is a native German she sounds bored and unemotional. By that you can see that even "voice acting" is part of the artwork that is a movie.
In Sweden, there is no such problem – movies are not dubbed, but subtitled. It simply would be too expensive to dub movies for such a small audience (as a fringe benefit, the Swedes have a better level of English). In Germany, on the other hand ,we have quite good dubbings ( the dubbings we have are quite good ). In general, the voices are appropriate and the dubbing is lip-sync.

Concerning the speaking of an actor, we have seen that the how is important – now I will focus on the what, the translation. When the words of an actor are translated into another language there can be a loss of information, for example wordplays ( puns ) will not work anymore. To give an example from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989): A Teacher asks "Who was Joan of Arc?" to which Ted answers "Noah's wife?". When this dialogue is translated ( rendered ) into German the humor will definitely be lost.
Another interesting point in German dubbings is the fact that the reference to Germans is often deleted. For instance, in the British movie Snatch (2000) a Turk asks Tommy, what he is doing with a gun. Tommy answers “It's for protection”, whereon the Turk replies “Protection from what? 'Zee Germans'?”. Here is a reference to Germans, but also to the characteristic German pronunciation of 'th'. In the German version, the Turk replies “Zum Schutz vor was? Dem schwarzen Mann?”.
Another example for such an alteration is 5th Element (1997). In the opening scene, a human scientist is face-to-face with a race from outer space. Surprised by the sudden appearance of the aliens, he asks “Are you German?”. In the German version this is changed into “Seid ihr von der Erde?”.

An example for the alteration of the entire moral ( message ) is Starship Troopers (1997), an adaptation of a science-fiction-novel by Robert Heinlein. Here the world is a fascist state ruled by a military government. In the final scene, a funeral, the protagonist is talking about the deceased fellow: “Dizzy was a friend. A soldier. But more than that – she was a citizen of the federation!”. This makes it clear, that the underlying principle of “military service guarantees citizenship”, belonging to the federation counts more than personal relations like friendship. In the German version it is changed to “Sie möge uns ein leuchtendes Vorbild sein!”. The references to a totalitarian fascist state are toned down considerably throughout the movie.
A dubbed movie version can exhibit several differences from the original ( one ): the voices of actors, the meaning of dialogues, even the intended impact of the movie can be altered by a different language. It is therefore important to know and to be aware of the fact, that a movie was intended to be in another language.

===========================
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[ingot]

I should have explained that the word "dubbing" is generally used rather than "synchronization", which tends to have a more specific meaning like doing something precisely at the proper time. Some dubbings have better "synchronization" than others , meaning that the articulation of sounds corresponds more accurately to the proper lip movements . There is also the sport of "synchronized swimming" and, when being on time is essential, you may want to "synchronize" watches
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[Sedge]

[ingot]

Hi Sedge,

in my opinion, your new title might be too general, language being a vast subject of which a movie translation is only one aspect. How about "Dubbing movies", "Dubbed movies", "Movies in translation"?

About "Turkish", the thought did occur to me that it might be the name of a character. I changed it anyway, just in case.

Something tells me that you will make a great teacher. In a previous incarnation I was one myself Teachers can make a difference!

Keep in touch,
ingot
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[Sedge]

[ingot]

You're right, of course. I haven't had my morning coffee, yet
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[Sedge]

Am I allowed to ask where you live and if you're a native?
_________________
- = Meine Stadt = - <= Bitte klicken, brauche Einwohner

[ingot]

You certainly are and, yes, I am a native... of Bavaria However, I have spent most of my life in the USA.
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[Sedge]

...und weiter gehts

Der Eröffnungspost war sozusagen eine schriftliche Zusammenfassung einer Präsentation, die ich halten muss/darf/soll

Im Folgenden jetzt eine überarbeitete Version, die im Grunde das sein wird, was ich sagen werde.

Bitte schuat da mal drüber ob das einigermassen verständlich und stringent ist. Schreibfehler sind hier nicht so wichtig, viel wichtiger wären mir hier Tenses!

Ich danke im voraus! Ach ja: Lasst euch nicht von [vid] verunsichern - das sind Platzhalter für mich, an der Stelle wird ein Video gezeigt.

=======================

Welcome to todays first presentation, titled “Movies In Translation”.
I've divided my presentation in 4 main parts:

1.Movies as part of our culture
2.Importance of voice and language
3.German in translation (with examples)
4.Conclusion

Movies are part of our culture. To be more exact: They are part of popular culture. Movies can be watched as a sleep-aid, while ironing or for amusement on the bus. But in my opinion, movies are art. Or, in the words of director Ingmar Bergman: “No art passes our conscience in the way film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls."
There are many ways how a film can affect our feelings – writer, director, editor, music composer: they all have their influences. A major factor for the perception of a film is the actor. With his appearance, body, body language, mimicry and -last but not least- his voice, he can deliver a message and act meaningfully.

As I said, I want to focus on the importance of voice and especially language: I recognized it on the Show “LOST”. LOST is a TV-series, where an airplane crashes on a deserted island. The passengers are from all over the world and they all have their typical accents: There is a Canadian, an Australian, a British, a Scottish, an Arabian, a Korean (who can only say fish and boat), and Americans from California, Florida and Texas. It's fun too listen to all of them – except the Texan guy: He sounds as if he chews a hot potatoe. By this accents you can track the origin and the cultural background of the characters. In Germany they all speak German, of course. All accents are missing, and all additional information like origin and cultural background is lost.

Concerning origin and cultural background It becomes very interesting when in English speaking movies someone is speaking German, or there is a reference of Germans. To give an example: In the TV-show Scrubs a doctor recognizes that his colleague can speak German [vid] In the German version it would make no sense when a German speaking doctor recognizes, that his colleague can speak German. If you were responsible for the translation, what would you have done? Exactly. Change the language. In the German version she is speaking Danish [vid].

As you perhaps have recognized, these are clichees: The little, blonde, cute girl, the resolute housewife. And this is interesting: The use of clichees. Please have a look at a scene from the British movie Snatch [vid]. Here we have the characteristical pronunciation of “th”: Zee Germans. Furthermore the Germans are an archetypical enemy in English speaking countries. Of course you can not transfer this clichee into the German version of Snatch. Please pay attention to the translationf “Zee Germans”. [vid] What here is important: “Schwarzer Mann” does not refer to a Black man. In German sayings it is a reference to a grave digger and hence is a reference to death.

My next example is from the movie 5th Element. In the opening scene, a human scientist is face-to-face with aliens from outer space. Surprised by their sudden appearance he asks them.... Well, let's see what he actually asks [vid] They look strange, they look scary, they look threatening – they must be German! What do you think does he ask in the German version? Let's see: [vid]


In conclusion I can say, that a translated version of a movie can exhibit several differences from the original one: meaning of dialogues, accents of characters, voices of actors.
A movie was intended to be in another language. It is important to know and to be aware of this fact.
I would advise you to watch movies in the intended language, wherever and whenever possible.
Furthermore I would ask you to watch movies consciously! Movies are masterpieces (in most cases) and do not deserve to be downgraded to sleep-aids.

Thank you for your attention!

=======================

Falls es niccht zu viel arbeit macht - könnten eventuelle Änderungen irgendwie markiertwerden? Thx in advance!
_________________
- = Meine Stadt = - <= Bitte klicken, brauche Einwohner

[ingot]

Hi Sedge,

I will concentrate on the tenses and place suggestions in parentheses.
ingot


Welcome to todays first presentation, titled “Movies In Translation”.
I've divided my presentation in 4 main parts:

1.Movies as part of our culture
2.Importance of voice and language
3.German in translation (with examples)
4.Conclusion

Movies are part of our culture. To be more exact: They are part of popular culture. Movies can be watched as a sleep-aid, while ironing or for amusement on the bus. But in my opinion, movies are art. Or, in the words of director Ingmar Bergman: “No art passes our conscience in the way film does, and goes directly to our feelings, deep down into the dark rooms of our souls."
There are many ways how ( delete "how" ) a film can affect our feelings – writer, director, editor, music composer: they all have their influences. A major factor for the perception of a film is the actor. With his appearance, body, body language, mimicry and -last but not least- his voice, he can deliver a message and act meaningfully.

As I said, I want to focus on the importance of voice and especially language: I recognized ( I have first recognized this ) it on the Show “LOST”. LOST is a TV-series, where an airplane crashes on a deserted island ( usually "desert island" . The passengers are from all over the world and they all have their typical accents: There is a Canadian, an Australian, a British ( Brit ), a Scottish ( Scot ), an Arabian ( Arab ), a Korean (who can only say fish and boat), and Americans from California, Florida and Texas. It's fun too ( to ) listen to all of them – except the Texan guy: He sounds as if he chews ( is chewing on a hot potato ) a hot potatoe. By this ( these ) accents you can track the origin and the cultural background of the characters. In Germany ( , )they all speak German, of course. All accents are missing, and all additional information like origin and cultural background is lost.

Concerning origin and cultural background It becomes very interesting when in English speaking movies someone is speaking ( speaks ) German, or there is a reference of ( to )Germans. To give an example: In the TV-show Scrubs ( , )a doctor recognizes that his colleague can speak German [vid] In the German version it would make no sense when a German speaking doctor recognizes, ( no comma ) that his colleague can speak German. If you were responsible for the translation, what would you have done? Exactly. Change the language. In the German version she is speaking Danish [vid].

As you perhaps have recognized, these are clichees ( clichés ): The little, blonde, cute girl, the resolute housewife. And this is interesting: The use of clichees. Please have a look at a scene from the British movie Snatch [vid]. Here we have the characteristical ( characteristic ) pronunciation of “th”: Zee Germans. Furthermore the Germans are an archetypical enemy in English speaking (English-speaking )countries. Of course ( ,) you can not ( cannot ) transfer this clichee into the German version of Snatch. Please pay attention to the translation f “Zee Germans”. [vid] What here is important ( here, word order ): “Schwarzer Mann” does not refer to a Black man. In German sayings it is a reference to a grave digger and hence is a reference to death.

My next example is from the movie 5th Element. In the opening scene, a human scientist is face-to-face with aliens from outer space. Surprised by their sudden appearance ( , )he asks them.... Well, let's see what he actually asks ( does ask )[vid] They look strange, they look scary, they look threatening – they must be German! What do you think does he ask ( he asks )in the German version? Let's see: [vid]


In conclusion ( , )I can say, that a translated version of a movie can exhibit several differences from the original one: meaning of dialogues, accents of characters, voices of actors.
A movie was intended to be in another language. It is important to know and to be aware of this fact.
I would advise you to watch movies in the intended language, wherever and whenever possible.
Furthermore ( , )I would ask you to watch movies consciously! Movies are masterpieces (in most cases) and do not deserve to be downgraded to sleep-aids.

Thank you for your attention!

Let me tell you again that your English is very good, Sedge.

=======================
_________________
When the final curtain drops, the applause may be less than thunderous. So what! There is no more need for bows.

[Sedge]

Thanks a lot!

(Oder wie mal in einem Computer-Heftchen der Most annoying Game-Title: Tanks a lot )
_________________
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[Sedge]

Dummerweise wird in meinem Filmchen nicht vom schwarzen sondern vom bösen Mann gesprochen

Deshalb folgender Satz, kann man den (grammatikalisch/sprachlich) so stehenlassen?


“Böser Mann” is a mythological character who scares children and is closely related to “Schwarzer Mann” which is a reference to a grave digger and hence is a reference to death.
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